Denis Pushilin: We are ready to attack and the transition to the offensive
What is it to smile every day the enemy? To hide the pain of loss from prying eyes. Talking about statistics, seeing each letter of the blood of friends and the ruin of their country. To bear arms was not the most difficult for Denis Pushilin.
Day after day, month after month, he sits down at the negotiating table with parliament of the enemy. The enemy is cruel, inhuman, deprived of their own will. An enemy who hates us more and for the fact that we are free. The junta has always hated us free. Therefore, the junta hates New Russia.
On the complexity of the negotiation process of Donetsk and Kiev in terms of actual war, said Special Representative DNI Dennis Pushilin browser "PolitNavigator" Valentin Filippov.
Valentin Filippov: Hello, Denis! Unfortunately, people have ceased to believe the media, myself included. I finally realized that until you're in place, you do not understand.
Not what is happening in Minsk, nor what happens in Donetsk. And you may even be lucky in life. You and there and there. And there, and there have information. Tell me that's the format of Minsk. What's going on there? Who are these people and whether they understand that Donbass is now under fire, and that they are responsible for it?
Pushilin Denis: Good afternoon. I would like to start by saying that the Minsk process, in general, quite complex. And the negotiation process is quite complicated. There will need to maintain an adequate level of diplomacy and not to get personal, do not pass on the emotions and really easy to talk with a cool head. Be aware, in the sense that now there is such a number of victims, but if we come to an aggravation, it will amount to a completely different numbers. We, unfortunately, remember, we were supposed to learn the lessons of the Great Patriotic War, when victims numbered in the millions.
And to think that it is not possible now, or our actions did not lead to this, probably, it would not be right. Here, direct the discussion and the number of victims of the shelling - this is how statistics. Normal sane person, of course, I would like to resort to some actions that are unacceptable in diplomatic circles. But, unfortunately, to find a consensus to find a compromise and a compromise solution - a solution that is not fully satisfied with any of the parties, that the search for such decisions and must be engaged in the Minsk format.
The search for such solutions should engage in any negotiating body. Of course, if put to the negotiating table the man who had just lost a relative during the shelling of Gorlovka, for example. On the other hand, put the widow Ukrainian soldier, who was killed on the outskirts or along the line of contact ..
Valentin Filippov: but he's an occupier ...
Denis Pushilin: They did not agree to that. Agree though. The maximum that they can, at each other's hair, but no consensus is found. So here it is to turn off the emotions. I can not speak for themselves. I completely turn off the emotions. For a long time I switch off. Because I just lost and relatives, and a lot of friends, associates, colleagues, who were next to me, and I still try not to think that they never will. Because of that you can go crazy. From this can be switched off from the process ... and then they die, their death is simply wasted.
Valentin Filippov: In general, everything is clear. But the people what they want ... I do not understand the situation. If agreement seems to be about some agreements. They achieved. There was talk of a ceasefire. In general, the Ukrainian side, it does not manage the process? Or realized? What prevents a cease-fire?
Pushilin Denis: It is much more complicated. In Ukraine today there is no acceptable alternative that would have made full ... options for further development. We are well aware that memory is simply to turn off the relatives of those killed and thousands of participants in these processes - will fail. We can not say, "Well, all the guys. From today we have a truce. Let's pretend that we have nothing happened. And yet, it was. " But this option is generally excluded. what options remain? Whether to accept that there is a DNR and LC. But in what terms to accept? Well, let's say, there are also a variety of scenarios. There are scenarios that we can observe from the world practice. Even let's not far to walk. There is an understanding, when Georgia with South Ossetia and Abkhazia when closed, in general, all sorts of social and economic ties, overlapping the edges, that is, as if they do not exist.
And the other scenario. Moldova and Transnistria. There's plenty of close cooperation even after the armed conflict. This is how Kiev should act correctly? For Kiev and the painful, and painfully. For example, if only overlap from us, not at all it turns out, because not much raising another subject of economic cooperation, there is coal. Coal Ukraine needs in order to provide heat during the heating season. If you take the Transnistrian option, for Ukraine as it is unacceptable, because the "war party" or "party of Maidan", they do not accept. They take the position that you need to clean up the Donbass, destroy by means of the armed forces of Ukraine. Bad option.So we can go back again .... Gorbulin, someone who is a party to the negotiation process with the Ukrainian side, that he wrote five scenarios, five options for further developments.
The fifth option, which he pushed it the option of "no war, no peace."That is, with periodic or permanent negotiations, despite the fact that there is a demotivatsionnaya activities. That's just the attacks that we have seen, they do not lead to a full-fledged Ukrainian offensive force, they are actually demotivator for the population, which is forced to endure. And the population perceives it is not just painful ... are killed and injured every day by our citizens.
Valentin Filippov: Well, the point of such a demotivating? What does it lead?
Pushilin Denis: It's undermining from within. That is, an attempt to prolong the time of Ukraine, trying to, say, the hope that Russia will conceive of sanctions by the European Union, Russia is economically exhausted, not even humanitarian support Donbass. Inside obtained discourages the time that people are tired of living under fire ...
Valentin Filippov: tired, but they hate there. Well, Russia has weakened. Well, it was not Russian. Well, that was not it tomorrow! No Donbass does not help. But people somehow hate the Ukraine thanks to fire. I am now in the Crimea there to hear "Yes, there is! Yes, it's all a lie, Ukraine is good, it should be friends! ". So you were there at all? - "Yes, I in 2011 went to Kherson! There Kherson Crimea exactly the same as it is here! And is not there any Bandera, I checked! ". So. If residents of the Donbass would not suffer from the attacks, regularly, but felt that there's pensions paid something else. It would somehow then moved toward each other. And now - in just a few generations.
Pushilin Denis: That you're right. Ukraine is not aware of one. With his firing, his actions discourages adjusts not only against us, against the authorities, which is here, but against yourself. People are well aware of where the shells fly. Who destroys them.Who will cripple their relatives who destroy the infrastructure and who makes life miserable. And yet here we consider the economic blockade, which is also feeling the ... Plus, it's the wrong option because Ukraine to alienate people and the second option is that Russia has a margin of safety is much more serious than those of the EU.
The EU is also aware, but succumbed to pressure from the United States that the only ones who benefit from this conflict. Who wins and economically ... from this state poluvoyny and in the political arena. They have created another point of conflict is unfortunately not unique. And Syria, Yemen and there. And a number of other countries. Which, thanks to the US is drowning in blood. But as far as understanding the Ukrainian state - this is the second question. Because it is operated in the same way.
Curators. Outside. That is, Ukraine is not independent in its decisions.Unfortunately, we fix it in a number of cases in the negotiations. We agreed everything perfectly. Dot all over the place. However, the next call to Kiev or somewhere further, as we assume absolutely must have reasoned, and the whole situation is not on the rolls. That's just such conditions it is necessary to negotiate.
Valentin Filippov: But I'm always trying to bring you one answer. So you've personally you think: shelling - this conscious action, is not making the average commanders of the armed forces of Ukraine? It is, after all, such a policy? So this is - nightly focused ... I mean, it does not indulge?
Denis Pushilin: Absolutely not indulge. Absolutely purposeful policy. Moreover, with some clear plan. This was confirmed even become a direct participant of the negotiation process Gorbulina that is all clearly described and even pushed, so to say, public opinion to this option. There is absolutely clear that they will continue and some time to act. And this creates the hope at the moment in the format already, "Norman," which will put enough pressure.
But there is, of course, a lot of objections - "why should we participate, why do we need it?" I want to tell you that for us it is It is a very important international platform when we hear that understand these issues. Because I'm here, for example, knowing the tragedy, the tragedy of feeling everything that's going on here, but very mediocre, very indirectly, to delve into what is happening in Syria.
Although this conflict is very closely related.Here in Syria - there are now literally die there every day hundreds of thousands of people. And that is just the world community is silent and does not know about it. And the fact that all these conflicts are linked - has shown, perhaps, the statement Kerry when he prescribed conditions when they come out of the negotiation process in Ukraine, if the situation will not be resolved with Iran.
That is, all that is happening in Iran, no matter how far away it seemed to us, it is very closely linked to what is happening with us. Yes, this is what was announced. Now imagine how much is not sounded from fields various meetings, summits and various other things that simply are not submitted to the Public, but remains at the level of those responsible for a particular part of the negotiation process .
Valentin Filippov: I see. You are in Minsk you Donetsk, you can see with your own eyes. Words to fight - it's good, but, as they say, a good word longer valid when a grenade launcher in his hands. At the end of winter - the beginning of March, Alexander Zakharchenko said the increase in the militia, about such plans. Then, like saying that there are 35-36 thousand, promised that there will be 120 thousand. I understand that there is a military secret. But what happens to the host? That is, build up strength? Whether increasing the combat capability? Does the size of the increases, the technical equipment? Is the army of New Russia, the DNI to fight?
Pushilin Denis: I want to tell you that even the militia already it would be wrong to call it.
Valentin Filippov: Well, a beautiful word. Well, beautiful.
Pushilin Denis: I mean, composition, quality, say so.
Valentin Filippov: People's Army.
Denis Pushilin: Militia I still associate with the period when people are absolutely chaotic, feeling responsible for their land for his people, took up arms and, having no experience, without having any combat coordination, were protected, so to speak, from the occupation of our land. But then it was extremely chaotic, that is, it was impossible to speak about any unity of command, given that this is really a popular uprising, given that it was organized by the various points. That is, it looks very messy.
However, it gave the result. And that, say, the greatest achievement of all children, then who did it, who did not hesitate, and, moreover, who put it over my life and my health. Today, we already have a full-fledged army. That is, it is an army with combat training, an army shooting, PhD, is an army with the updated, let's say, the technique because Debaltsevsky Ilovajskij and boilers, so to speak, are paying off in terms of replenishing our technical support.
Accordingly, training, which is conducted at our various ranges, and various command staff as well. That is, if it is a tanker, it's really a tanker that can already. It is not a tractor because there is an analogy for managing tank and tractor. Here it is, so to speak, was forced to fight on the tank.Now - a completely different level. Accordingly, we are absolutely ready to repel an attack, if such be followed by the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
Valentin Filippov: A to attack?
Pushilin Denis: To approach - we are ready to attack from the side and move to the offensive.
Valentin Filippov: diplomacy. Let Lavrov worried. Lavrov's time to worry. Young changed.
Pushilin Denis: Actually, for us it is very important now to do everything possible in the political arena and not to provoke the conflict itself, because we are well aware, we value every human life. No matter: on the side or on that side. It is impossible to such a conflict solution by military means, to people dying from only one side. There are dead and there and there. And of those, and those have relatives.
What will be more victims, the relatives will be more unhappy that it will pass from generation to generation. That is, as you rightly said at the beginning of the transmission, the conflict can be smoothed, so to speak, we will be able to communicate more or less normally in only a few generations, at least two generations. Here's a period of time, now here this reserve has already made the conflict so far. If the situation escalates, the situation may be much more pitiable.
Valentin Filippov: On the one hand, yes, but I like Odessa, always remember how fellow weekly fall into the dungeons and do not go there. And there are losing health.Someone killed. You probably know how much Odessites war. ... Still in the army, I will call. Because, in the end, no matter what the discipline was not there, people come to volunteer for the most part. And even some do not take. They say: "you are fat, you can not run." Some, by the way, veterans of militia is very upset that they take away from the front, sent to some logistical service. They say: "You do not physically pull."He says: "How not to pull? Dill I want to mow. " He says, "No, you will shift the paper or in the kitchen, because the old you." That is, the competition is real. Therefore, this militia is the People's Army. With discipline, but the People.
Pushilin Denis: That the People's Army, I do not argue here. I will express our position. For me, due to the fact the militia guys who climbed erratically, had no form, in jeans and fought with weapons that the battlefield away. Who do I call it a host of very difficult. However, we have adopted the Law "On the status of volunteer", that is, for us is very important.We do not charge you in any time, do not have this or any moral right, any more. Well, as for the children, who are now being held hostage, in fact. And not necessarily in the dungeons.
That is, even the man on the loose, he can not make his position any, nor to express their opinions openly, whether it is in Odessa, Kharkov and other cities, our towns, in fact. It's very sad. And our next task, of course, they are free. What option - will probably time. We do our best, that it was a political scenario. But, unfortunately, we do not rule out a military solution to the conflict. Because if we will be applied against the forces if Ukraine did make an attempt to take the offensive, and so, of course, our response will be appropriate.
But, I would say, and I would like to perhaps warn. Care of himself, activists who are involved. They are quite a lot everywhere.That is dissatisfied with the territory of Ukraine is growing, and people are tired of war.