Friday, November 21, 2014

"Who are you," Shooter "?"

"Who are you," Shooter "?"
Prokhanov , Igor Shooters
November 20, 2014 7
Politics WarSociety

Converse chief editor of "Tomorrow" and former defense minister Donetsk People's Republic

Prokhanov. Igor, the other day I was in New Russia. And returning, he began to believe the witness what war is. Turns out, the sixteenth. Starting with Damansky, Dzhalanashkol, Afghanistan ... Donetsk, Lugansk - sixteenth campaign. And each of these wars is not even his face (which is like a person - every war). And this is some substance that has its subjectivity, its destiny, its development, its memory. Do you feel that war has some features that go beyond the technology of war? How would you describe the Donetsk war in its phases, stages, experiences?

Igor arrows. This is my fifth war. There were two Chechen, Transnistria and Bosnia. I want to emphasize its similarity - scenic similarities - from the Bosnian war. Start of the Bosnian war is very similar to what happens in the New Russia. When Yugoslavia broke up and began the parade of sovereignty of the Republic of Serbia, some regions did not want to go to the Muslim Croat Federation and revolted. These republics Bosnian Muslims, Croats suppressed by armed force.And then to help them come Yugoslav People's Army, but was stopped by Sarajevo under Vukovar, Dubrovnik under. Stopped not because they met serious resistance, but because it could cause the direct intervention of NATO. The army was withdrawn and left their weapons to the Serbs. Now the situation is very similar. And God forbid that it just ended. Because when the JNA left, the Serbs could not organize. Then there was a very long, exhausting war. And then she quickly ended - Croatia defeated each in turn.

Prokhanov. But there is the factor of violence. NATO troops and the troops began bombing ... And this war as developed in phases?

Igor arrow. At first, no one wanted to fight. The first two weeks were held under the banner of the fact that both sides wanted to convince each other. First days in Slavic and we and they are very cautious approach to the use of weapons. The first encounter was with the SBU, which we tried to clean up, but fell into an ambush. Not even quite an ambush, and head-on collisions, to which they were not prepared. Suffered losses and cleaned. Then it was quiet. Ukrainian side began to put roadblocks in our surroundings appeared 25 airmobile brigade. But she was not eager to fight. We managed to disarm first reconnaissance platoon, then the column. It was precisely disarmament - a submachine gun, threatened with burning equipment, they did not dare to join the fight and we were disarmed.

But still a long time we did not touch their roadblocks, and they do not show aggression.These are the first steps.

Then "right sector" began to throw us subversive groups - started a firefight. More National Guard under was not - only the "right quadrant." The Ukrainian side very carefully behaved, step by step palpated as Russia will behave. The first month was not the shelling of the city. The first firing Slavic - at the end of May. Before they shelled the villages, but he did not touch Slovyansk.But as they knew that Russia does not respond, the shelling became more powerful, the actions of armored vehicles and aircraft - more and more massive. In early June, they were finally convinced that Russia does not directly intervene and let the winds. The first massive attack in the Slavonic was the second of May. Next - using all forces and weaponry - tanks and armored vehicles - they held June 3rd. Between these attacks were fighting, local skirmishes.

June and July were the most severe. If in April and May all went on the increase, that is, to expand the territory of the uprising, we gradually put under control settlements Donetsk Republic, spreading movement, in June, we started to recede. Us from all sides began to draw, enemy forces enormously superior in all respects. And the enemy has become the motivation for military action. Start of fire propagation. And further, the higher the motivation increased.

Battalions of the National Guard began to arrive on the battlefield. They were originally motivated, considered the enemy, that is us, as Moscow's mercenaries. They were confident.that we are all sent from Russia. And the fact that we Slavyansk 90% were local, donbassovtsy not even want to believe.

In June and July, when the aid was extremely small, the enemy drove the huge forces.Generally the increase was not comparable forces. For example, to us during this time came to 40 volunteers, and 80 came to the enemy machines. What's in them - is another question. But in each machine - a minimum of man.

In August - at the peak of the crisis - we fought in almost agony. Just feverishly to patch holes, and stopped any breakouts. We were in a full operational environment. And they could not break through it. Besides, we have already started as a classic boiler, cut into smaller boilers.Gradually cut Gorlovka ...

Prokhanov. You talk about the phase when the left of the Slavic in Donetsk?

Igor arrow. Yes. In that phase also had two parts. When we came out of the Slavic in Donetsk, this phase was complete confusion of the Ukrainian side. They had fully registered the script, and we do not fit, mixed them all. And suspiciously smoothly everything went at them in this scenario. Very suspicious.

As for the situation with Slavic .... After the Ukrainian side broke through the front under Yampil we already hanging by a thread, plug the hole between me and think it was impossible, for it was not strong enough - at least needed a team. And we did not have a reserve.

And when they took Mykolaivka, we do not have any chances. Would have a chance if we massively put equipment, weapons. I had three tanks, one of them was completely defective, he did not fire a single shot. Only two tanks were operational. With their help, we defeated one checkpoint. But immediately after the defeat of the enemy roadblock at all roadblocks staged by four tanks. In Slovyansk ukrov have had seven blocks, and each - four tanks. Any block ukrov technical armed and in numbers was most strongly Slavic garrison. At the end of the siege I was 9 broneedinits, including these two tanks, and the enemy on every block - seven or eight units, including four tanks. And I had an alternative: either take a full siege without supplies, or going out. Prior to this provision on the field the road runs. And when the enemy took Mykolaivka, we stayed one field road, but they cut it if we broke the night on this road, it is already in the afternoon they had a post.

Thus, variants. Sit in the siege. Ammunition for small arms on good fights I'd had enough for two days. On average intensity - for a week. And after fighting under Mykolaivka left me at 8 mortars 57 minutes - less than 10 minutes on the mortar. There was not enough and everything else: on heavy weapons lacked ammunition, worst of all with antitank weapons. Fights were serious, spent a lot, and replenishment have been reported. It was all 5th of July. "Vacationer" came after 40 days. We have before their arrival did not last. We would not have enough food.And most importantly - the Ukrainian army did not go to the contact fights. When we ourselves impose contact fight, then they were losing. And they have taken since Yampol tactics advancing from line to line, throwing forward only armor without infantry. Before armor walked barrage. If you encounter resistance armor, she departed. Again barrage. Then again armor. Again barrage - and again technique.

As a result, they began Nikolaevka methodically destroy. Clumping "hurricanes", "city", the heavy artillery. No one expected such a massive bombardment. Some five-story building in the city is simply formed. Actual losses of civilians we do not even know - they're huge.

After this, the enemy just walked Mykolaivka, and I had to bring the remains of the garrison.It was clear that the same thing happen again in Slavic - already without pity his thunder. But I could not answer them, because the shells were not. They would have fenced with barbed wire, surrounded by mines, as they did with others, taking them into the ring. And wait for when we'll die of hunger or, or climb on a breakthrough. A breakthrough in such conditions would be accompanied by enormous losses, and it is unknown would work out or not. But Slavyansk been the core of our crew - a half thousand people, of which more than a thousand - fighters. In Kramatorsk was about 400 fighters in Kostyantynivka little more than a hundred, in Druzhkovka fifty, on the other tracks small garrisons on 20-30-50 man. And I knew that from the outside to me, no one will break. Neither "MBT" or "East" I did not obey. Do Bezlera which Gorlovka based, at that time there were about 350-400 people. If I could not break the ring with his fifteen hundred, then certainly it is something the more I could not. It turned out that if I stay in the siege, then after a while ukry oblozhat me after that will begin to take a new city for the item.What, in fact, began: I do not have time to go out and have already captured Artemivsk where they have their man was. And one day, completely cleared the Artemivsk.

At a time when the output of the Slavic already planned second environment with clipping completely Kramatorskaya Druzhkivka, Konstantinovka. This is the way that's why I came out of the Slavic, did not defend Kramatorsk: there also was no ammunition.

Given the deep penetration of the enemy to Artemivska (he already came to Gorlovka practically in our hinterland was), cling Kramators'k no sense. We still would have won three or four days, but the result will still be out. Any breakthrough, especially - disorganized, accompanied by losses.

Despite the fact that we came out of the Slavic very organized, we have all the armored group died. Tragic accident. They have been together with artillery, divert the attention of the fire from the place - from the outskirts of Slavyansk. Then skip past all the motorcade, the last to leave - bringing up the rear. But then load the human factor, and the armored group went on the line break.

To avoid creating a flea market, we all were divided into six columns. Each column was leaving an interval of half an hour. I made a serious mistake, which came out in the second column, and did not stay till the end. I had my reasons: Kramatorsk I immediately opened the headquarters. But it was necessary, of course, to go last.

This would have happened if I was present at the site. And so you can say to me that the fainthearted, hastened to jump.

Generally our losses could be much greater. But the Ukrainian side at night to fight never liked, so we derived artillery entirely, as well as 90% of the infantry and rear.

We were in the ranks of 11 mortars and two "Nona" were on the move. The famous "Nona" had to leave because she though her ukry never knocked out, all was in splinters. Due to wear in her left undercarriage. She pulled all the time here and there, at the end of the gun and went out of her system. As the soldiers joked Ukrainian units that moved us, she in her life did not shoot as much as Slavyansk.

So - armored group went directly, and it all burned. Blocked the road. The first tank was blown up by mines, tried to overtake the second - fell into the ravine. And others were shot grenade launchers. Some people survived - jumped, broke.

If just started technique - could somehow act, but the whole armor burned. In Kramatorsk I had three infantry fighting vehicles and two armored personnel carriers. This is too little - against us were two mechanized battalion tactical groups and a tank battalion.

And if we are able to operate in the building, then to resist the enemy in the open countryside could not.

Yampol our fortified broke through in one day, despite the fact that we dug in there were pillboxes, dugouts. We have a shortage of anti-tank weapons - not a single anti-tank gun. Be then at least one anti-tank gun, even one "Rapier" not breached our defenses, they would, despite the artillery preparation. But with some "bezotkatkami" we could not fight. I knew that taking the fight on open ground - only to lose people.

Prokhanov. You said that your way to the enemy of the Slavic was totally unexpected.

Igor arrow. Yes, he discouraged them. After all, I was ordered categorical - not hand-slavic.And when I said that going to come out, I repeated several times ordered not to go out, defend Slovyansk to last. "You certainly deprotected defending Slavic". I asked: "What will?" Silence. And I - a thousand people and thousands of their family members. Put them I had no rights. So I decided to break.

Here are some more time. When I was in the Crimea during the Crimean events, visit the 35th battery. Powerfully impressed me. Chaly - just a boy, he regained almost everything on their own. Equally impressed by the fact that all the commanders of Ukrainian Sevastopol defense all admirals, generals, pilots - fled .Ostavili for himself commanders of regiments and battalions.Those killed along with the soldiers. And when I was in Slavyansk, decided, or I do not go out at all, or I will go out with all the garrison. I decided to go out and find it correct.

Deeply convinced that if we do not come out of the Slavic, then do not be deterred and Donetsk. When we entered the Donetsk - everything there was wonderful. Sat Kiev mayor, ATC is still subordinated to Kiev - diarchy classic. The city was not at all prepared for defense.Checkpoints are equipped with bad roads are not blocked, you have to go as you please. And the forces there were very few, they were fragmented, scattered, nobody nobody obeyed, was separately Russian Orthodox army separately - "Vostok" battalion, separately - "MBT". Each squad defended their district, unified management was not.

The problem was not the point, and that the south was almost engulfed in Donetsk, the enemy took Amvrosievka. Basically he has cut us off from the border. DNR was completely under the control of the enemy. And most of the LC was under the control of the enemy. Operated only item - Izvarino where moved one of my mouth from Kramatorsk, and they have greatly increased defense there.

And just to Donetsk eventually cut off all of the miner, agglomeration Taraevsky-Miner-Anthracite. On that site was only a few not very powerful roadblocks and Saur-grave. And between them were huge holes where you can enter. Ilovaysk was empty - there was no garrison.In Ospina was no garrison, no checkpoints.

Arriving in Donetsk, in the city I just left the headquarters commandant company. One battalion broke in Petrovsky district - this is the south-western tip, which was empty. The remaining forces, and Kramatorskaya and Slavic, were brought to the team, divided into three battalions and Reconnaissance. They immediately were thrown at his listener, Ospina. And I formed the front line.

Prokhanov. Of its parts?

Igor arrow. Because of its parts. Because the "East" I did not obey. On personal contacts with them managed to establish cooperation. They defended Yasinovataya district, district Avdeyevka, sand, Karlivka. On Karlovka hodgepodge was: first, there were people Bezlera. Then they left, I had to send his back. Then I ordered a retreat, break out, because they cut off from us, there was no sense in an environment two companies lose.

If we had not formed the southern face, I think that everything would be over very quickly. If we stayed in Slavyansk, then a week later, after a maximum of two, Donetsk have fallen. And going out, we held forty days before the arrival of Donetsk "vacationers". Although the last few days were just desperate. When we came out of Donetsk, then try corridors on Russia in the area of ​​Marinka, Kozhevina, brow. At the same time struck himself corridors to supply and cut off Yakov all enemy group.

We kept the corridor with very heavy losses, lost color of the Third Assault Battalion in these battles. When we broke through the corridor, in the battles of Marinka lost in killed and wounded 120 people in two days - mostly from artillery fire from air strikes. Killed were over 30. For me this huge loss.

And at the moment of breakthrough "vacationers" I battalion cap was dissected into two parts: one part was defended in snow, and the part with the reconnaissance, was pressed against the border, cut off.

Besides, I always had to remove a company from Donetsk, throw on other sites. For example, I first company of miners and antitank platoon had to throw in Debaltseve. Then the same thing had to do with the red beam. Then the fighting began under Ilovaiskaya. At the time of the breakthrough we were separated so that I and the military police went into battle - in Shahtersk fight. In Donetsk from our Slavic brigade remained virtually only one battalion of two companies who cover Petrovsky district. Battalion Kamenska also almost all gone from Donetsk.And left rear: supply, commandant of Rota, which mostly consisted of elderly and untrained, the combat value of which could only be in the city in street battles, and not in active combat.

Some reserves were at "Hold" and "East", but "MBT" I obeyed partially "East" did not obey.Reproach me that I do not navёl order there. But I had a simple choice when I went from Slavic, or urgently to form a front against the enemy, or to organize a coup. But Donetsk at the time was quite peaceful city. People sunbathing, swimming, athletes were training people in a cafe drinking coffee. As in Moscow in the summer, and in Donetsk was. And I have no one understood.While my soldiers rushed to arrest all these rear, disperse. But I understood: it is necessary to deploy a civil war - then that all of us, and slam! I decided that a bad peace is better than a good war, and deliberately left on it.

Prokhanov. Were in this critical situation and intentions of Donetsk leave something unequal forces were again?

Igor shooters. I accuse, I wanted to leave Donetsk. I told him honestly, at some point, I stopped believing that help will come from Russia at all. Just stopped believing! And no one could guarantee me that.

Critical moment for me, as a commander, was at the time of breakthrough Shahtersk. When they knocked us out Debaltseve and just reinforced the column 25th Brigade went to Ukrainian Miner, entered the city. When they took Debaltseve, I already knew that the next breakthrough will make on Miner. I took off from the front, that is isolated from other battalions, two companies. And they were standing on the loading. And at the moment when the enemy entered the Miner, one of my squadron moved there, and the other was on the loading drive there.Accordingly, immediately after that, I took two more companies, then another one, sent there armored group "Mainstay" that is created grouping. In this case I just bared Donetsk. Because I was sure that if the enemy and finds itself in Donetsk, here on the streets we somehow detain him and hand over Miner - totally meant everything to lose.

Because we had a semi-guerrilla army, we were loaded long. Moved too long. All volunteers - families, they were removed from the Slavic. And we are only partially managed to forestall them. One company still entered Miner and gave his take. But ukry cut the road between the miner and Thorez. Then they were off this road barely beat out.

Battles were a whole week, the King commanded - Kononov. That's why I supported his candidacy for the post of defense minister - as a battalion commander, he showed himself very well. He had a reinforced battalion. Four Slavic company, my company of military police, armored group "Hold", batteries ... all this he normally maneuvered. Knocked the 25 Brigade, defeated her with quite a small loss on their part.

At the moment when the enemy cut the road between Miner and Teresa, I have come a psychological crisis, I started thinking about what to do, thinking of transferring headquarters in Miner or snowy and prepare evacuation Donetsk. Because I understand that if aid is not, then you should at least save people.

Prokhanov. You do not have the time characterized as a psychological change. I followed closely the processes, the dynamics of your performances and, perhaps, the dynamics of your destiny. And I think that you have done everything correctly. Everything is done right! Based on the real balance of forces, otherwise you could not do that. On the other hand, everything that you have done - this messianic feat.

Igor arrow. Why do I say that was the turning point? Because at the time I ordered the cook to the headquarters of coagulation, all shtabnikam loaded. People did not discuss my orders because I believed. And I myself went to Miner forward. But at this point the road was cut. I spent the whole day there and talked with the men looked. During the day, I almost did not run Miner Brigade, saw King normally handles and intervene with the commander did not. By evening, talk to people, I decided not to leave Donetsk, although this is not planned at first to leave Donetsk and Gorlovka. And due to cover the northern garrison Gorlovka Donetsk and FAS line on Miner.Because we have there was a large, undisguised hole. But here also played a role that was Gorlovka boatswain, and he defended Gorlovka. Boatswain acted absolutely correctly: it my orders to prepare to evacuate disobeyed. And the next day the order was canceled by itself. I realized that in that situation there, we will not withdraw troops no organized from Donetsk, neither of Gorlovki. We cut off the last road and field roads are very uncomfortable. I personally presented the evacuation of Donetsk and Gorlovka - columns of refugees were shot on the roads from all sides. Realized that it is better to take the fight in Donetsk, than all these breakthroughs.In the evening I returned to Donetsk and has, despite the gravity of the situation, did not plan any transfer of staff, nothing.

I replied to the question whether there was a plan for Donetsk. Plan was not putting in Donetsk, and the intention of abandonment as a variant of Donetsk to output and save people and capabilities.

Prokhanov. Align the front and roll Mariupol - it's only "vacationers" do or militia also took part?

Igor arrow. Individual units militia were subordinated to them. But mostly on advancing Mariupol "vacationers". When they left, remained precarious and the front line, and opportunities.

Firstly, Mariupol was empty, there was no two days the Ukrainian military could take without a fight. But was ordered not to take. Do not just stop orders and orders in any case does not hold. Just Volnovakha could take.

Why do I say that events similar to the events in the extreme: there Yugoslav People's Army stopped just a step up to a decisive victory.

Prokhanov. Igor Ivanovich, how do you do in this war dived?

Igor arrow. I was a counselor at Aksenov in Crimea. He is a man of great charisma, clever, competent, sane, talented. I commanded the only unit of the Crimean militia, a company of special purpose that perform combat missions. But after the fight for the cartographic part when the two were killed (and I commanded this fight), a company was disbanded, the people went home.

When the event occurred in the Crimea, it was clear that one thing will not end the Crimea.Crimea as part of New Russia - a huge acquisition, the jewel in the crown of the Russian Empire.And one of Crimea, cut isthmuses hostile state - not that.

When the Ukrainian government fell apart before our eyes, in the Crimea constantly arriving delegates from areas of New Russia, which would be repeated at what was in the Crimea. There was a clear desire at all to continue the process. Delegates at planned uprising and asked for help.Aksenov, because he has such a load fell off, it is 20 hours a day worked, asked me to engage in the Northern Territory. And he made me an adviser on this issue. I began to work with all the delegates from Odessa, Nikolaev, from Kharkov, Lugansk, Donetsk. All had full confidence that if the uprising will develop, then Russia will come to the rescue. So I gathered nerazehavshihsya fighters company, to recruit volunteers. 52 people gathered.

In Slavonic came quite by accident. We needed a middle city. 52 people - a force more or less in small settlements. And I was told that in the Slavic strongest local assets. This option we evaluated as optimal.

Prokhanov. How overgrown people subdivisions your movement?

Igor arrows. When we arrived in Slavic, on the basis of a person we met 150-200. And they participated in the storming of the ATC with us. In the ATC had enough weapons - under a hundred rifles and pistols 100-150. People immediately armed. Part, however, were separated.

The next day we took Kramators'k: I went there Cossack division - 30 persons. And off we go.Then it all depended on the availability of weapons. The first few months were a lot of volunteers, but we had nothing to arm. When the fighting began, the real blood flowed, the number of volunteers poumenshilos.

But still there were many. I reported figures by the end of May to Donetsk Republic enlisted 28 thousand people. 28 thousand people really waiting arms. If even half dismiss: criminals, casual, even a half - a 14 thousand people. If we had weapons, the situation has evolved very differently than it has evolved. By the time of my departure from Donetsk we have under arms and 10,000 were not. In Slavic brigade on the lists was around 9000. But are combatants, that is directly fighters around 5000. Others - tylovikov, cooks, volunteers, supplies ...

Prokhanov. When you fought in the Slavyansk, you were just a military or felt and politician? People are turning to you, ask, "Who are you, the shooter?"

Igor arrow. Honestly, I did not intend in any way that is not involved in politics, but even light. In the Crimea, I also did a lot. Negotiations on delivery fleet staff I started going there alone, talking with all staff. But the fact is that I have never lit up. Yes, somewhere in the photos some colonel. I'm not saying that the left or retired. To solve my tactical problems was beneficial to me all considered valid. However, I never cried that I act. Simply said - Colonel. And they themselves think out. Well, that and thought: a colonel. What I retiree, knew a few people. And the others thought we wanted. Neither the names nor the name of my not know.

I also planned to behave in Slavyansk. Going to find a charismatic leader and as an advisor to assist. The first time I did so. Therefore Ponomarev always flashed. He - the People's Mayor. was very active. Was useful in its time. Then things went differently. And I have not found anyone who could move as a political leader.

And then just come to light up the team: Denis Pushilin arrive, it is fully supported. Although I already burned all the bridges, there were no papers, all the fighters left the documents when crossing the border, but it cut off the possibility of retreat as such at all.

As soon as I without a mask, without the "Balaklava" appeared on the TV Pushilinym, firstly, everyone knew who the shooter. Although previously knew that I really teams, interception already been published, was my identikit, but then I saw firsthand. Immediately I figured, was taken to an apartment in Moscow. I did not consider this point, and do not even have time to notify relatives. Relatives, I generally never in the course of entry: I, where, how. As a result, I suffered the loss of a personal level because of this exposure, because I can not live at home, use your library. Not to mention how many survived my relatives who also learned about everything on TV. Throughout the war in Slavyansk I had a military dictatorship. And then I did not climb.

Prokhanov. Do you think that your experience - purely military, not political. You were the minister of defense, commander of the brigade?

Igor arrows. In Slovyansk was battalion, brigade was not. First Slavic volunteer battalion. It was a banner, standard. Prior to the release of the Slavic I actually exercised any influence on Donetsk as defense minister. I have gradually been building up front. I really obeyed Brain, I sometimes put him tasks. In combatant respect he did not obey, but tactically. operational - to obey. I treated my front line by line Lisicansk-Krasny Liman. Garrison Slovyansk obey, obey Kramators'k, Druzhkivka-Kostiantynivka. For a while I obeyed and Gorlovka Bezler because I helped him - he sent a detachment to sweep the city, without my squad, he would not have taken control.

Prokhanov. I think everything that happened then in Slavonic and Donetsk with you, one way or another connected with the restoration of the state. And you are not just involved in the restoration of the military organization, but also the state as a whole. That is, you have been consciously or unconsciously political role, you stand at the origins of the establishment of the state.

Igor arrow. At that moment I understood perfectly well that alone Donetsk and Lugansk fight against ukrov can not. Especially - in the absence of its own military industry, effective government of the local. And I originally started from the fact that repeated Crimean option - Russia will enter. It was the best option. And people in this endeavor. Nobody was going to play for the Republic of Luhansk and Donetsk. All were initially - for Russia. And the referendum was conducted for Russia, and went to fight for Russia. People wanted to join Russia. Russian flags were everywhere. I was at the headquarters of the Russian flag and all. And we are perceived by the population under the Russian flag. We thought, comes the Russian administration, the rear will be organized by the Russian and another republic within Russia. And about a state building, I thought. And then, when he realized that Russia us to not take myself (I can associate with the host), for us it was a shock decision.

Prokhanov. It is not definitive.

Igor shooters. We have nothing definitive, that's the thing. War is six months, but we still do not know, "edyna" Ukraine is not "edyna" Ukraine. What is more important to us: gas supply or the Russian population in the South-East?

Prokhanov. Would like to see something, and then. But not impossible.

Igor arrows. And if not, then after all that important? I report that in Donetsk daily bombing.Every day, send the complete lists of hits: where horrible, where a projectile. That is, the day before, with two nights before five in the morning carried the city easy. Spacing! One day, from early morning to late evening - carried the. A little more - and turned into Stalingrad. And we will haggle over a hundred oil. And it turns out that in trade relations with Ukraine, we are working to help her survive and fight at the front.

Actually, if I was aimed to seize power in the DNI, I could grab, no problem. When I came from the Slavic in Donetsk, all waiting to see what I capture power. But I had a job to protect the republic, not to seize power. I would love to go back. And I believe that everything is done correctly ...

Prokhanov. I also think so.

Igor arrows. But trigger war still hit me. If our unit is not crossed the border, in the end everything would come to an end, as in Kharkov, in Odessa. It would be several dozen killed, burnt arrested. And this would be over. A flywheel is practically a war that still goes on, run our squad. We mixed all the cards on the table. Everything! And from the beginning we began to fight in earnest: destroy subversive groups "pravosekov." And I am personally responsible for what is happening there. For the fact that so far raked Donetsk - I'm responsible. For the fact that the Slavic left, of course, I am responsible. And because he is not released, I too am responsible.

But, because "in the absence of a stamp, write a simple" - we create a movement to even so, humanitarian support militia.

To say that we provide them, you can not. But we really help. Half the army dressed in winter clothes now that we have put to them. Our assistance goes to the troops. And to provide humanitarian assistance to the population is capable only of the Russian state. Only the state!From the State Reserve must take. With the money that you are going, we can help the militia, families, wounded, but that is not all.

Prokhanov. Looking back on your life, do not you think that all fractures in your life, throws, war - is the result of some mysterious logic that lies not even in your nature, and destiny?

Igor arrow. I am against any mysticism in this regard. Just consider that in every situation we must do - does not always work, unfortunately - correct: "Do what you must, come what will."

Prokhanov. But do situations occur accidentally or logically?

Igor arrow. To the mess that was formed after the collapse of the Soviet Union, could be anything. In war, you meet those people who have passed and even more experienced. I was under the gun cameras. But there are a huge number of people who deserve a lot more. And the past more and more talented in many ways. I have fought the officer, who knows three languages ​​before Donetsk went five wars. Absolutely unique destiny. But for some inaccuracies, these people are under a bushel. Maybe their time has come. This mysticism - a real chance.

Prokhanov. But mysticism has its own field. It exists somewhere, somewhere realized. And realized not in the stars, and in human relations. You do not try on political caftan?

Igor arrow. It wants me to try on this coat. But honestly - I chore never liked. I - scout trooper as Denis Davydov. He always oppressed regular service. Though promoted to the rank of generals, best manifested themselves as partisans.

- Human breakthrough, always go to the island. The biggest success that I do best - where he had to go first to break through, to engender, to start to build. Next should come the other - to build. This - at first. And secondly, I do not have the necessary skills. If you go into politics, I could show themselves precisely in the crucial moments. Routine me contraindicated. I myself get bored, lose interest. Now we have a relatively stable situation. Our policy is based on the principle: smeary - welcome. There is a hook on you - so you can work with you. A honest man now in politics do nothing. Hopefully something will change. Still, the war, it changes things.

Prokhanov. In the history of the Russian military had failed policies. For some reason they did not know how to write themselves into politics, even when there were military aristocracy. The unhappy fate of the Decembrists. Strikingly military behaved in the last days of the Romanov empire ...

Igor arrows. There was just cheating.

Prokhanov. That war and engaged in politics - give power Guchkov, Shulgin. A Tukhachevsky? Failed to do anything. Zhukov was the host country, the power in his hands was absolute. He handed it to Khrushchev.

Igor arrow. The military secretly laid functions submission.

Prokhanov. Just not in the Hispanic ...

Igor arrow. Latin American military in the ground and are committed to each other's overthrow. A World War, they did not win.

Prokhanov. And the Turkish military? No, there are other military tradition. Russian military ever really get the power, gave the politicians who then with them and also dealt.

Igor arrow. I'm not quite military in the classical sense. The command of this kind for me rather casually. I - the secret services.

Prokhanov. As the secret services, you have the chance to become a big politician.

Igor arrow. Politics now - it's manipulating elections. Lying on the screen, lying everywhere.Superior quality policy - swirl like the wind vane. I do not know how to spin like a weathercock, and do not wish to be able to. I want to die an honest man. And I will not lie to any screen in any way. If I can not honestly say it is better to say nothing. I can work around any theme, nothing more. Lying directly, I will not. Strongly want.

In today's political system has no place for me, I understand that perfectly.

Prokhanov. Maybe currently unavailable. But the story is changeable, especially Russian history. It has great dynamics. I'm all over the skin feel that time, these peace and truce absolutely illusory. The most precious thing a person - it's reputation. You have a huge reputation.

Igor arrow. It is now trying to drown.

Prokhanov. Do not pay attention. Flex that you hang on, is laughable. Maybe you will be the temptation to be magicians who want to enchant you. Wait, when he blow pipe again.

Igor shooters. I hope that the rain.

Prokhanov. Jericho pipe is always at the ready, do not worry.

Igor arrow. The main thing is that the copper is not sounded.

Prokhanov. Brass you have already passed, leaving Jericho. Shooters took his place in Russian history. He did what he could do. And this, dear Igor, a precious resource with you our historical reality.

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